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Tanking: The least fun role.

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True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11324	Posted - 2014.06.28 22:57:00 - [1] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: Hey, do you anti-tank guys (not av guys, there's a difference) who constantly want tanks to be nerfed even know what its like to tank? It's fcking horrible. You asked for tanks to be nerfed cause you were too lazy to get off your *, pick up a forge or swarm launcher, and kill us. No, instead you went on the forums and cried like a bunch of btches, now my 15 mil SP I have into tanks is completely fcked. It's not that I'm a sht tanker, cause even the best tanker in the game can't kill a forger 20 meters in front of him cause the dispersion is soo bad. That is the problem. No matter how skilled you are, or how much SP you have, there is no way to kill anything more than 10 meters away from you. The ONLY place tanks have in PC anymore is as counter tanks. Imagine you fired your gun directly at someones head and it went literally everywhere except your target. Tanking: officially the least fun role. I'm actually all cool with being an AV platform. I personally think that's primarily what HAV should be. The Highest tier and most powerful AV units on the battlefield. That's why I would like to think that all forms of vehicle would be encouraged to be placed on the field to that Tanks can become a viable and regular play style. Not only this but I would like to think in Legion Tanks could have a designated role and or certain actions they can perform to aid in the combat so that their inclusion in battles is more tactical the power based. Issue is though that Hakyou is right. HAV operation is not enjoyable. Rails have arbitrary range restictions that do not make sense, combat is relegated to shot range brawls with no long range options, vehicles have constant fast regeneration encouraging a hit, run, and regen rather than longer battles and tactical module use. Additionally modules and fittings have be dumbed down so much there are so few viable tank builds or options for combat vehicles..... I have no issue with Tanks being unable to directly and easily engage infantry with their large turrets I think that is great and makes incentive for tankers to fit and use secondarly light turret gunners, or to run with squads for protection. That In my mind is how it should be. Personally I'd be all for tanks having greater HP but less regen, or slower regen. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11332	Posted - 2014.06.29 10:17:00 - [2] - Quote INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: True Adamance wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Hey, do you anti-tank guys (not av guys, there's a difference) who constantly want tanks to be nerfed even know what its like to tank? It's fcking horrible. You asked for tanks to be nerfed cause you were too lazy to get off your *, pick up a forge or swarm launcher, and kill us. No, instead you went on the forums and cried like a bunch of btches, now my 15 mil SP I have into tanks is completely fcked. It's not that I'm a sht tanker, cause even the best tanker in the game can't kill a forger 20 meters in front of him cause the dispersion is soo bad. That is the problem. No matter how skilled you are, or how much SP you have, there is no way to kill anything more than 10 meters away from you. The ONLY place tanks have in PC anymore is as counter tanks. Imagine you fired your gun directly at someones head and it went literally everywhere except your target. Tanking: officially the least fun role. I'm actually all cool with being an AV platform. I personally think that's primarily what HAV should be. The Highest tier and most powerful AV units on the battlefield. That's why I would like to think that all forms of vehicle would be encouraged to be placed on the field to that Tanks can become a viable and regular play style. Not only this but I would like to think in Legion Tanks could have a designated role and or certain actions they can perform to aid in the combat so that their inclusion in battles is more tactical the power based. Issue is though that Hakyou is right. HAV operation is not enjoyable. Rails have arbitrary range restictions that do not make sense, combat is relegated to shot range brawls with no long range options, vehicles have constant fast regeneration encouraging a hit, run, and regen rather than longer battles and tactical module use. Additionally modules and fittings have be dumbed down so much there are so few viable tank builds or options for combat vehicles..... I have no issue with Tanks being unable to directly and easily engage infantry with their large turrets I think that is great and makes incentive for tankers to fit and use secondarly light turret gunners, or to run with squads for protection. That In my mind is how it should be. Personally I'd be all for tanks having greater HP but less regen, or slower regen. 300 meters isnt long range? Dude its a ******* Railgun..... most large calibre projectile weapons can fire 800m +..... a mass accelerated rail round would go for miles. 300m is short range in comparison. However this is a game and people are such whining gits they couldn't handle realism....... " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11333	Posted - 2014.06.29 21:02:00 - [3] - Quote DELB0Y wrote: I'm a tanker and I have loads of fun hunting tanks and now that AV has been buffed it makes games way more exciting for me. Yeah AV balance is fine.....but driving the HAV is boring..... primarily because I don't have my tank....but also because all the old modules and well designed fitting combinations are gone...... not to mention being impossible to fit a single basic module in each slot without a PG or CPU extension....... (why do vehicles have to use these when no infantry suit ever has?) Gis me a rig slot with an Ancillary Current Router! " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11333	Posted - 2014.06.29 21:49:00 - [4] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Hold on a second, you put 15 mil SP into HAVs and you still suck with them? Tanking isn't hard, you just have to remember you aren't invincible. He's not saying it's hard he's saying it's boring. Indeed. Tanking was never hard....but it used to be challenging pre 1.7....... now its neither enjoyable nor challenging. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11333	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:09:00 - [5] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Try playing a tank as "Aggresive Infantry Support" use your tank to move the battlelines forward, stick closer to your friendly infantry and in general be prepared to play a less "offensive style". The thing is you aren't playing HAV's like CCP want them to be played, the fact you are still trying to kill people with a large blaster turret (which Rattati confirmed as not intending to be a mechanized infantry slaughterhouse) just shows this. You have the play the game much like the rest of us. If you use hardeners you can get a decent amount of survivability for a short amount of time, 2 shield hardners allows you to take 5x as much punishment, while 2 armour hardeners allows for 3x as much punishment. You designed to punch holes and bolster lines, not charge in stick in park and laugh as the puny man with a swarm launcher gets headshotted 30 times by your large blaster. You are still just 1 man in a steel box and so long as this is the case, working by yourself should mean you are soloable by enemy AV. Soon as you bring some organized infantry to the part, between you, you become greatermthan the sum of your parts. You don't have to tell me twice..... I've been using my HAV in FW as an APC for months now..... But by that very nature I am not tanking..... I am fulfilling the role MAV really should be doing. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11333	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:37:00 - [6] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Small turrets: Fit them. Already do. Does not make tanking any more enjoyable or difficult. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11336	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:47:00 - [7] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: Small turrets: Fit them. I have them on some of my fit's but their a b!tch to fit, even with lvl 5 missile fitting op. lvl3 dmg fitting op. lvl 5 shield fitting op. lvl 4 armor fitting op. I can barely fit 2 STD small rails (only viable turret) onto my missile tank and even then some sacrifices must be made. I know the feeling. Large Blaster Optimisation 5, Small Railgun Optimisation 5........ Armour skills 5, Turret Command 5...... Cannot fit a viable basic module in all slots without a CPU or PG upgrade sacrificing one of my lows..........pointless all around and exactly why stacking 3x Reps or Hardeners was so viable...... Nothing else came close to being that effective or competitive. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11337	Posted - 2014.06.29 22:49:00 - [8] - Quote Guiltless D667 wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Hey, do you anti-tank guys (not av guys, there's a difference) who constantly want tanks to be nerfed even know what its like to tank? It's fcking horrible. You asked for tanks to be nerfed cause you were too lazy to get off your *, pick up a forge or swarm launcher, and kill us. No, instead you went on the forums and cried like a bunch of btches, now my 15 mil SP I have into tanks is completely fcked. It's not that I'm a sht tanker, cause even the best tanker in the game can't kill a forger 20 meters in front of him cause the dispersion is soo bad. That is the problem. No matter how skilled you are, or how much SP you have, there is no way to kill anything more than 10 meters away from you. The ONLY place tanks have in PC anymore is as counter tanks. Imagine you fired your gun directly at someones head and it went literally everywhere except your target. Tanking: officially the least fun role. The scope of which you had influence has been narrowed down/lessen,where as before you had free rein/control over the field,Why are you(and players like you in this state) so oblivious to this? To what are you correlating "fun" to? How many kills you can muster based on the effectiveness of your turret? or your validation of your SP invest you put into your HAV,by getting kills with your HAV? Comparing it to pre 1.6 where -AV was strong and viable (borderline OP) -We had more module choices and options -Meaningful and progressive Core Skills - T2 Hulls in Marauders and Enforcers - Tanking was not dumbed down - Fitting HAV with higher tier modules in all slots was possible - Long and Short ranges were both viable and not arbitrarily capped - Skill Points and Operator skills trumped the power of the Hull That was fun. I did better in the last week of 1.6 with the old UP tanks scoring 52/1, 44/0. 63/0, 48/3, etc But at the same time I lost more HAV than I ever did in other games vs skilled tankers. This build I've lost plenty of HAV..... mainly to glass cannon MLT fit Modded Sica....... 0SP invested nubs who abused the new focus on hull power and less of SP to effectively negate 2/3's of my SP investments. Tanking post 1.7 has been boring......pointless, and too easy. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11337	Posted - 2014.06.29 23:16:00 - [9] - Quote Zahle Undt wrote: Pop into the forums after a couple months and its all the same bitching about the same imbalances, but yeah Legion is going to magically be a better game than Dust. As to the actual topic, tankers in this game have been and always will be scrubs with no gun game and no desire to learn any. They need high KDR for ego fulfillment. Of you change tanks so they aren't I win buttons against infantry than they cry like babies who want their mother's tit. I don't think I have seen anyone in this thread crying about imbalance....... only that HAV operation is not fun.....and thats not about kills......its about the failed tiericide and stagnation of vehicle related skills and content. As for the no gungame thing....are you serious, I can get out of my HAV and do just as well if not better. My KDR is atrocious for a Tanker since I started off as an Assault, then went Sentinel, then Tanker, and now Commando sitting at a measly 2.5...... that's not what I tank. I used to do it because it was enjoyable, different, and requiring of a wholly different set of skills from infantry combat....not so much any more. So before you make smartarse and ignorant comments that make you look like a ******* idiot your should probably stop refering to the tanking community in terms of Spkr4theDead and Takahiro....... not every one of us is a blatantly biased as self entitled as them. EDIT: Btw how is my old alliance? I hear their EVE wing is really nicely developed now. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11395	Posted - 2014.06.30 20:02:00 - [10] - Quote Atiim wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: I wrote this in another thread: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Make a skill for blaster dispersion: 5% less dispersion on blaster per level. Scattered Blasters - Higher damage per shot at the cost of a higher dispersion. Stabilized Blasters - Much less damage per shot with more range and far less dispersion, useful vs infantry. Compressed Blasters - Very high damage per shot at the cost of a big RoF nerf. Also, bring back heatsinks! They aren't going to introduce a skill to decrease 80GJ Blaster dispersion, because then it'd become an Anti-Infantry weapon. Rattati was considering increasing the time it takes for dispersion to apply though, that could be skill. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11397	Posted - 2014.06.30 21:12:00 - [11] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: True Adamance wrote: INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC wrote: True Adamance wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Hey, do you anti-tank guys (not av guys, there's a difference) who constantly want tanks to be nerfed even know what its like to tank? It's fcking horrible. You asked for tanks to be nerfed cause you were too lazy to get off your *, pick up a forge or swarm launcher, and kill us. No, instead you went on the forums and cried like a bunch of btches, now my 15 mil SP I have into tanks is completely fcked. It's not that I'm a sht tanker, cause even the best tanker in the game can't kill a forger 20 meters in front of him cause the dispersion is soo bad. That is the problem. No matter how skilled you are, or how much SP you have, there is no way to kill anything more than 10 meters away from you. The ONLY place tanks have in PC anymore is as counter tanks. Imagine you fired your gun directly at someones head and it went literally everywhere except your target. Tanking: officially the least fun role. I'm actually all cool with being an AV platform. I personally think that's primarily what HAV should be. The Highest tier and most powerful AV units on the battlefield. That's why I would like to think that all forms of vehicle would be encouraged to be placed on the field to that Tanks can become a viable and regular play style. Not only this but I would like to think in Legion Tanks could have a designated role and or certain actions they can perform to aid in the combat so that their inclusion in battles is more tactical the power based. Issue is though that Hakyou is right. HAV operation is not enjoyable. Rails have arbitrary range restictions that do not make sense, combat is relegated to shot range brawls with no long range options, vehicles have constant fast regeneration encouraging a hit, run, and regen rather than longer battles and tactical module use. Additionally modules and fittings have be dumbed down so much there are so few viable tank builds or options for combat vehicles..... I have no issue with Tanks being unable to directly and easily engage infantry with their large turrets I think that is great and makes incentive for tankers to fit and use secondarly light turret gunners, or to run with squads for protection. That In my mind is how it should be. Personally I'd be all for tanks having greater HP but less regen, or slower regen. 300 meters isnt long range? Dude its a ******* Railgun..... most large calibre projectile weapons can fire 800m +..... a mass accelerated rail round would go for miles. 300m is short range in comparison. However this is a game and people are such whining gits they couldn't handle realism....... Except in RL the battlefields aren't held within redlines. Basically your "realism" on a rail in Dust would equate to rail tanks having access to the entire battlefield from any vantage point. Rail sniping from one redline into the other redline, IRL, would be: fires bunker buster from Taiwan, takes out military base in North Dakota .5 seconds later. That's not happening. TL;DR: Balance before Realism. We've been saying it since closed beta, and they are finally listening. You want realism, go play BF. Dis be Sci-Fi, yo. Edit: Didn't look who said that before responding.... that's not a comment I've come to expect from you True.... are you okay? Just concerned that players whining will cost HAV their potential of having a designated role and place on the battlefield. Thats not to say I don't appreciate the concerns of Dropshippers etc...... but why in other games do Tanks feel like powerful engines of war and Dusts feel sterile and broken as all hell? I'm against HAV Large Turret being Anti Infantry effective.... I would like to see HAVers having their own over arcing goals that bring them into contact with infantry but don't wholly unbalance their combat and give HAV their own objectives to fulfil to aid the team. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11397	Posted - 2014.06.30 21:13:00 - [12] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Hey, do you anti-tank guys (not av guys, there's a difference) who constantly want tanks to be nerfed even know what its like to tank? It's fcking horrible. You asked for tanks to be nerfed cause you were too lazy to get off your *, pick up a forge or swarm launcher, and kill us. No, instead you went on the forums and cried like a bunch of btches, now my 15 mil SP I have into tanks is completely fcked. It's not that I'm a sht tanker, cause even the best tanker in the game can't kill a forger 20 meters in front of him cause the dispersion is soo bad. That is the problem. No matter how skilled you are, or how much SP you have, there is no way to kill anything more than 10 meters away from you. The ONLY place tanks have in PC anymore is as counter tanks. Imagine you fired your gun directly at someones head and it went literally everywhere except your target. Tanking: officially the least fun role. I stopped reading after the first sentence of the second paragraph. I'm a grown ass man. I'm not going to be internet lectured. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be sometimes. " We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12989	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:00:00 - [13] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: Hey, do you anti-tank guys (not av guys, there's a difference) who constantly want tanks to be nerfed even know what its like to tank? It's fcking horrible. You asked for tanks to be nerfed cause you were too lazy to get off your *, pick up a forge or swarm launcher, and kill us. No, instead you went on the forums and cried like a bunch of btches, now my 15 mil SP I have into tanks is completely fcked. It's not that I'm a sht tanker, cause even the best tanker in the game can't kill a forger 20 meters in front of him cause the dispersion is soo bad. That is the problem. No matter how skilled you are, or how much SP you have, there is no way to kill anything more than 10 meters away from you. The ONLY place tanks have in PC anymore is as counter tanks. Imagine you fired your gun directly at someones head and it went literally everywhere except your target. Tanking: officially the least fun role. Least fun role.... was only good back in Uprising 1.3............ "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12990	Posted - 2014.08.21 00:15:00 - [14] - Quote Sgt Buttscratch wrote: Hakyou Brutor wrote: Hey, do you anti-tank guys (not av guys, there's a difference) who constantly want tanks to be nerfed even know what its like to tank? It's fcking horrible. You asked for tanks to be nerfed cause you were too lazy to get off your *, pick up a forge or swarm launcher, and kill us. No, instead you went on the forums and cried like a bunch of btches, now my 15 mil SP I have into tanks is completely fcked. It's not that I'm a sht tanker, cause even the best tanker in the game can't kill a forger 20 meters in front of him cause the dispersion is soo bad. That is the problem. No matter how skilled you are, or how much SP you have, there is no way to kill anything more than 10 meters away from you. The ONLY place tanks have in PC anymore is as counter tanks. Imagine you fired your gun directly at someones head and it went literally everywhere except your target. Tanking: officially the least fun role. I read this and laughed, the swarms used to be much worse, as did the av nades, as did the forge gun. Difference..my tanks cost 3.2million ISK, crying about yur half mil **** tank, lose more in suits some matches I remember when HAV cost about 1.5-2.8 Million ISK and Swarms would just tear through them like they were nothing....... I MISS THAT TIME! "We were commanded us to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocent caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon

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